00_02_04

ON BUCKMINSTER FULLER



 
From ???@??? Sun Feb 06 16:38:55 2000
To: "Basic and applied design (Art and Architecture)"               <DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
From: negenter@worldcom.ch (Nold Egenter)
Subject: Re: DL:[looking glass] the old masters
Cc:
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Message-Id: <v01530500b4c345761493@[212.74.155.80]>

>Thanks for this post, John.   :-)
>
>Maria Alice Miller
>malice@pobox.com
>http://www.pobox.com/~malice
>
>-----Mensagem original-----
>De: John Young <jya@PIPELINE.COM>
>Para: DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU <DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
>Data: Sexta-feira, 4 de Fevereiro de 2000 23:58
>Assunto: Re: DL:[looking glass] the old masters
>
>
>>    Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes
>>    less and less obvious as you begin to study the universe.
>>
>>    For example, there are no solids in the universe.
>>
>>    There's not even a suggestion of a solid.
>>
>>    There are no absolute continuums.
>>
>>    There are no surfaces.
>>
>>    There are no straight lines.
>>
>>                          -- R. Buckminster Fuller
>>
>>----
>>
>>Who is today's Bucky, or better, tomorrow's?
>>


Date:         Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:36:57 -0800
From: brian carroll <human@ARCHITEXTUREZ.COM>
Subject:      Re: DL:[looking glass]
To: DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU
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 JYA asks:

>Who is today's Bucky, or better, tomorrow's?
 

 i nominate the distributed network of the Design-List
 as a collective organization of independent students,
 professors, professionals, and laypeople, who through
 discourse bring to light a new paradigm architectural
 thought, observation, and action. as the Design-List
 grows, and ages, it begins to have memory and a new
 kind of knowledge, artificial. it is this thing, this
 challenging yet mundane discourse that documents the
 architecture of the 20th to 21st centuries. all ideas,
 all theories, all practices are of value, not one or
 another alone. long live Design-L!

bc


Date:         Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:32:50 +0100
From: Nold Egenter <negenter@WORLDCOM.CH>
Subject:      Re: DL:[looking glass] the old masters
To: DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU
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Status:  O

>Thanks for this post, John.   :-)
>
>Maria Alice Miller
>malice@pobox.com
>http://www.pobox.com/~malice
>
>-----Mensagem original-----
>De: John Young <jya@PIPELINE.COM>
>Para: DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU <DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
>Data: Sexta-feira, 4 de Fevereiro de 2000 23:58
>Assunto: Re: DL:[looking glass] the old masters
>
>
>>    Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes
>>    less and less obvious as you begin to study the universe.
>>
>>    For example, there are no solids in the universe.
>>
>>    There's not even a suggestion of a solid.
>>
>>    There are no absolute continuums.
>>
>>    There are no surfaces.
>>
>>    There are no straight lines.
>>
>>                          -- R. Buckminster Fuller
>>
>>----
>>
>>Who is today's Bucky, or better, tomorrow's?
>>
 

Sounds like a letter of indulgence. "If thou hast  given up all sins of
materiality   thou will reach the architectural heavens."

WOW! Lets stop this abusrd architectural pseudotheology!

Ask one of the famous Himalaya climbers what in fact it costs in tranining,
organisation and outfit to just get ONE HUMAN BEING up there to about 8000
meters. Note: many have died!

Given the ***death-rattle*** of the present globe, Bucky's program for the
architectural universe on earth is definitely not the right thing! It is
absolutely anachronistic, a dangerous recipy for the present 'anything
goes'.

How can we get this pseudo-scholastic  medievalistic 'to go to heaven'
mentality out of architectural design heads?

What we must become aware is the fact that architecture happened, happens
and will allways happen in a small and thin spatial domain over the lower
physical earth crust and its conditions.

What we must become further aware is the fact that what counts are the
***human conditions*** of architecture and urbanism.

Architectural prayer-book-kitsch of the above type has devastated our
cities worldwide during the 20th century. Continue the same nonsense?
Aren't humans    able to learn?

How can we make architectural design aware that there is an intense
relation between theory and practice?

We must become aware that the idea of heaven and earth was originally a
formal condition of architecture itself (polarity). Thus Bucky's
prayer-book kitsch shows - in addition - a complete ignorance about
architectural principles.

We have to become aware to what extent we are indoctrinated by progress
* 'primitive' religion - 'high' religon: Eurocentric value system, no science!
* 'primitive thought, high philosophy! Eurocentric value system, no science!
* 'primitive' art' - 'high' art: Eurocentric value system, no science!,
* 'primitive' architecture, 'high' architecture: Eurocentric values no
science!, etc..

Stop this theoretical barbarism on all levels! It kills the world!

We must become aware that not all was stupid that was built by premodern
societies. It could be extremely valid for systematic research to gain new
principles for a 'humanistic' design of the 21st century.

We must become aware that 'sustainability' might be a REAL PROBLEM.
Premodern societies gave us proof of their expertise: otherwise we wouldn't
be here.
 

>>
>>Who is today's Bucky, or better, tomorrow's?
>>

We offer a free graveyard for his ideas! Bucky style. On some highest
mountain of the earth. Brrrr! Join the club!
 

Best regards
 

Nold Egenter

P.S. Watch out for the Design Research Society's ***DRS_News*** a
semi-annual e-mail Newsletter. It provides interesting informations
(conferences) and shows that design is on the way to do research! e-mail:
* design-research-request@mailbase.ac.uk,
* dd3@staffs.ac.uk,
* D.Durling@staffs.ac.uk

_________________________________________________
Our INTERNET-Homepage: http://home.worldcom.ch/~negenter
NEW: 'RESEARCH SERIES ONLINE':
http://home.worldcom.ch/~negenter/005_ResSerOnline.html
_________________________________________________
Nold Egenter
DOFSBT, Chorgasse 19
CH-8001 Zuerich, Switzerland
Tel.: +41-1-2516075
Fx:  +41-21-3231707
________________________
e-mail: negenter@worldcom.ch
 


Date:         Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:47:13 -0500
Reply-To: "Basic and applied design (Art and Architecture)"
              <DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sender: "Basic and applied design (Art and Architecture)"
              <DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
From: John Young <jya@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject:      Re: DL:[looking glass] the old masters
To: DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU
In-Reply-To:  <v01530501b4c34da80167@[212.74.155.80]>
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Nold offers a refreshing critique of Buckyisms. I got the quote
from a Web site that sells anti-surveillance equipment, run
by a former US intelligence operative, who warns that you
don't know who is spying on you, and you don't know who
is selling you phony protection against it. Trust me and mine,
he screams, like Nold.

That is the looking glass imported from the Gov-Mil war
machine into the commercial, privacy threatening environment.
And from this mad applicaiton of science all science is now corrupt
as part of our intellectual heritage of learning in the service
of institutional terrorism, lying and deceit.

Higher education, scholarsip and, say, environmentalism,
is not innocent of that perhaps now pandemic worldwide
unavoidable corruption. What begain in a demon zealot's
mindwarp has become the paradigm of "distinterested"
service to society cloaking a theism of narrow agenda.

Exhortation for any cause smacks of propaganda for
enlightened self-interest. To cynically eschew any cause,
though, is to grant the battle to the propagandists: our
most trusted intellectuals, educators, media stars and
the intellectual property pirates who control distribution
systems worldwide through sweetheart arrangements with
doting governments -- the latter an inheritance of imperialism
but hardly the first instance.

Nold's right to call this pinhead theology, but what else is
there? Certainly his righteous sermon could be seen as
an example of what he attacks, and I'm a believer in
galvanizing sermons. wherther Bucky's Nold's, the PoMos,
the earth firsters, or fictioners of heavens on earth or above,
for they are often immensely creative in their monomanical
conceit and bend the truth in wondrous ways to fit
imaginary worlds of minds seeking release from petty
workaday tasks, minds unable to accept the small demands
made on them, the way people appear indiffernet to one's
best work and often do so in the name of and misunderstanding

of some dead person now being promoted by copyright
inheritors, and the way one's self-perception seems ever
out of whack -- and it's time to call the world on to the carpet:
get in sync with me and my design for creation or I shall
target gods ballistic missiles (blind ideas, theology) onto your
sacred cows.

Only intellects with no way out believe in the efficacy of
exhortation, and may something or nothingness have mercy
on them for their mesmerizing persistence, for laboring
majestically to produce documents proving their faith.



 Date:         Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:31:51 -0800
Reply-To: "Basic and applied design (Art and Architecture)"
              <DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sender: "Basic and applied design (Art and Architecture)"
              <DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
From: Van Varga <vanvarga@INTERGATE.BC.CA>
Subject:      Bucky/Nold
To: DESIGN-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU
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Nold,

re:  Bucky

His buildings leak, but so do others.
His dymaxion car?  Mr. Bean had better taste.

This is not a guy to get exercised about.  What he did have was a mad
vocabulary; a way of contracting thoughts to evince inventive associations.
That is a valuable contribution in itself.
What one does with these larger, more comprehensive, but at the same time
unified ideas is an act of imagination that either appeals or not.  Fuller
was many things but he was not stupid.  When he states something like "There
are no straight lines" I donít think it is to be taken at face value.  I
know there are straight lines because I just drew one but if I whip out a
magnifying glass it certainly evidences a different reality.  There are
plenty of Buddhist monks to instruct me on the inscrutabilities of life.
Fuller had some ideas too.  If he was ignorant about polarity so be it.
Maybe his physical creations are toys but if he has been able to inspire
others to acts of imagination that are fortified by their own hard-learned
experience then that is valuable.  He worked all his life on developing what
he called "Comprehensive Anticipatory Design Science"?the attempt to
anticipate and solve humanityís major problems through the highest
technology by providing "more and more life support for everybody, with less
and less resources".   Whether he himself did that well is almost
irrelevant.  I think that Johnís question; Who is today's Bucky, or better,
tomorrow's?  is a legitimate one because it asks who is attempting to
anticipate and solve etc. etc.  I personally  question whether it is
necessary to use the highest technology.

I would be interested to learn about examples of architectural prayer book
kitsch and their concommitent devastations because that would elucidate
better whether we are talking about bad design ideas or just ideas that did
not meet their mark.

//Van



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